Transcript
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All right, Mike, we are here with our guest, hopefully this is fair to say,
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but the unholy Magister Bill M. Bill, hello. Hello.
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Welcome to the show. We are very excited to have you on.
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You are definitely one of our most provocative guests, I would say,
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but I'm very excited to talk to you about this.
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And I think I'm going to start off with a very general statement because I feel
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like this is the best way to kind of start the show with this is,
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what is Satanism? So when we're talking about Satanism, it is not the same as
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Satan worship. It's Satanism.
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And I would say it's embracing the life enriching things which have traditionally
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been given the devil's name.
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So pride, lust, earthly success, rational self-interest, atheism,
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humor, science, nonconformity, being selective about whom we love.
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You know, spiritual religions have traditionally condemned these things as being
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shameful sins, but we take them as empowering ideals.
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And we also recognize the psychological power and the fun of symbolism and aesthetics,
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so we pick Satan as mythology's most fitting mascot for what we're about.
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What's fascinating about that is, I recently watched that documentary that I'm
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sure you know, the Hail Satan documentary.
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Are you familiar with that? Yeah, I am. Yeah. Do you have opinions about that?
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Oh, I certainly do. Well, I actually do want to hear your opinions on that.
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But before I do that, one of the comments that they said in there was the reason
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why we call it Satanism, because we don't have anything else to call it.
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Would you agree with that statement?
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Yeah, the people who made that are pretty clueless, that whole organization who made that group.
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It was really just a 90-minute commercial for their thing.
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Interesting. So tell me about that, because I am curious to talk to you about
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that, because so I had recently watched that and I had thought,
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is this an accurate representation?
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Because with any documentation or any documentary, right, it's always like,
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how accurate is this to what's really going on, whether it's politics or saving
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the fish, whatever it is, right?
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And so since this is your realm, can you tell us how accurate really is that documentary?
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Not really at all. I mean, it's made by this political stunt group that calls
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themselves the Satanic Temple.
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I actually know a guy who calls himself Lucian Greaves. His name's Doug Mesner.
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He used to be a member of the Church of Satan, actually.
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And I kind of consider them, they're like the Westboro Baptist Church with horns, really.
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It's like they're into publicity stunts rather than, you know,
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presenting an actual religion.
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Initially, they hired actors claiming to be Satan worshipers and their own high priest,
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Brian Werner, quit after realizing that they really
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have nothing to do with satanism you know they are social justice
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warriors who wear pentagrams really what
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they are and it's fine if if i
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mean that's fine if that's what you feel you know
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you have a cause to do but don't call it
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satanism they use satan satanism as a costume pretty
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much and journalists you know
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just assume okay anybody who says they a satanist must be and interesting i
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mean they're really just a political stunt group they show up where christians
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are and just try to just mimic what they're doing in satanic garb that's but
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i haven't seen any signs of them being an actual religion they certainly don't represent satanism.
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That's that's fascinating because i would feel like you know i would say 90
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of the audience who watches that documentary right like not going into knowing
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what satanism is it's like they're going to think, oh, that's what it is, right?
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Like, this is what it is. And so that's a very good insight on that.
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I think, what would you say is the proper way Satanism would be treated?
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And what's the difference between the two?
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Well, I mean, again, they're a political group, and that's really all they are,
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that uses the label of Satanism, the, you know, I guess, the fear of that to
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try to do stunts against Christians, and that's it.
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I've seen no sign that they have an actual religion to present.
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Gotcha. They have this list. Yeah, I mean, they made up this list called the
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seven tenets, which they did only because they were protesting a Ten Commandments statue.
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And so, okay, we want to make Christians look like the bad guys.
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Let's come up with a list of seven things that seem more agreeable and have
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more mass appeal than the Ten Commandments. Well, not really hard to do.
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Right, right. But that's not Satanism. Satanism, you know, we're adversarial.
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That's what the word Satan means means adversary in the original Hebrew word and,
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You're trying to do things for mass appeal in the name of Satan.
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It just makes zero sense to me. What is an average?
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What does an average? What is it called again? I'm sorry. Like a service? Thank you, guys.
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Sermon. There you go. It's like, oh, my uncle dad is not on his point right now.
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Well, Satanism is not actually a congregational religion. We don't have weekly services.
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We do have rituals, and any individual Satanist can pick up the Satanic Bible,
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and there's a basic ritual that's there and there are
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other things we can do we do occasionally get together for group rituals
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but it's not necessary at all so in satanism
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you would do a ritual if you feel the need for it
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if there's an emotional need for it not something you you go to every week out
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of you know out of habit we don't drag ourselves to you know to the pew once
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a week right things like that you know because when you say like if there's
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an emotional need is that something like this depending on the situation so
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let's say like i'm going through the hardest time at work then i I would,
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that's how I would go about.
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Yeah. You could certainly utilize some of the rituals we have because we realize
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ritual is a man-made thing, ceremony and symbolism and all that.
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They're man-made things, but they're very powerful psychological tools.
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And we kind of recognize their strengths psychologically.
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So we think if you can put yourself in that situation where you can have an
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emotional release, it can be very cathartic and help you focus on whatever personal goals you have.
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Have so it's it's a tool you know that we have in our toolkit that's that's
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it's pretty fascinating i think so what i what i'm very very curious about too
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about learning about the satanism i would say religion right i would say satanism
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yeah i call it a religion okay how how would you like how does one like i guess
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become a part of the pack if you will like do you just go do you just do i just,
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say hey bill i want to become a member of the the church how does that work
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well you don't have to do join the Church of Satan to be a Satanist.
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All we say is a requirement for Satanism is you read the Satanic Bible.
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So you read what Satanism is about and you decide, okay, is this something that
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fits me? Does it something that resonates with me?
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Because there's a certain personality type and other ideals that go in with that.
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We're one of the few religions that says not everybody can join.
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If anything, we get some people, well, we get people all the time who are like,
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know oh i really really want to be a satanist and it's
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kind of like we see from their beliefs and their actions it's like yeah this this
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thing isn't really for you maybe you should try something else bill
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let me ask a question what what makes the the church of satan choose satan because
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i think you know when people don't know much about it they hear satan they think
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of the little the guy with the devil horns or whatever and he's a bad guy what
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obviously that's not the this the the same message that once I started looking
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at your website and such,
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but what makes the church of Satan choose Satan as like, it's.
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Symbol, I guess. Well, like I said, Satan means the adversary,
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and we are adversarial in all of the general things spiritual religions are
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against, and we're for the carnal, not the spiritual.
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And when Satanism was formed, it was formed, you know, in 1960s America when it was first codified.
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And here in Western culture, the most famous adversarial character from mythology is Satan.
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Now, had the principles of Satan been founded in another time and another place,
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another culture, another century, maybe it would have ended up having a different name.
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But Satan is the most, I think, apt character and the most stimulating character for that.
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So you need a mascot that drives some emotion.
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Yeah, and I also noticed there's a lot really tied to nature,
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or like kind of you worship, not worship, but you celebrate the equinox of each time of year,
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and it seems like a lot more connection to the earth and nature than it is anything
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else, I guess, right? Is that fair to say?
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Well, yeah, because we do explicitly say in Satanism that humans are animals,
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and that seems to be one of the most fundamental things that goes directly against
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all the spiritual religions trying to say that, no, you're more than an animal and that you.
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There's something virtuous about being less animal-like and we're, we're a Satanist.
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We take, you know, the opposite approach saying, no, you have a,
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you know, you have a carnal drive and carnal desires and some of those things
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should be met and not bottled up.
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And with that, with the equinox and those sorts of things, yeah,
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we do acknowledge, you know, those points of the year, cause we are here in
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nature, here on the earth.
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And I think, you know, the, the shifting of the seasons and those holidays is
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more significant than, say, acknowledging the birth of a mythical character. Right.
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I'm curious too, how does the system work?
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I mean, I don't really understand, because I guess a standard,
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not a standard religion, but any religion, there's always a hierarchy,
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right? How does the hierarchy work in the Church of Satan?
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So the hierarchy that we have in the Church of Satan is mostly based on what's
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a word I'm looking for, kind of an award ship.
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It's things that you've been granted and titled as a magister.
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I don't lead, you know, again, I don't lead congregations, you know,
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things in weekly services. I have conducted group rituals.
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I have conducted satanic weddings and funerals and the like.
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But Satanism doesn't you have a regular pastor like that.
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That so we give out titles based off of
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you know when we see individuals who are excelling are
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they applying satanism in their lives do they
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have a great grasp of the topic can they come on
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to shows like this and explain it well and you know and we
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recognize that we give award positions and titles
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based off of that who awards them though is like who's the
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who's like what would you call the top person then
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because there has to be a top person right yeah so right now
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magus gilmore is a a high priest okay so he'd
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be a high priest yeah yeah there'll be high priest we
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have a high priestess as well we don't when it comes
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to gender we don't have any rules about you know
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saying that only men can be priests or any kind of nonsense like that it's you
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know equal across there oh that's all yeah we we do have a high priest peter
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h gilmore who because you do need as an organization that you know have have
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a figurehead have a head that can be a face one you know,
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when it comes time to that and be representative and so on.
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When did the, I am very curious here, what's the, when did the journey of Satanism
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start for you, if I may ask?
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So for me, I've always been interested in religion.
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I've always been fascinated by that,
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always been fascinated by rituals and symbols and ceremony and so on.
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And I was raised in a Catholic household in a very Jewish neighborhood and I
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had a friend who was Hindu.
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So I always knew about the existence of other religions and I had.
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Done New Age dabbling and occult dabbling and looked into Far Eastern stuff
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and couldn't really find something that fit me.
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And it wasn't until years later, in like my early 20s, I had discovered the Satanic Bible.
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I had always heard about Satanism because I grew up in the 1980s during the
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Satanic Panic Hysteria, as it's now called, when people really believed there
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were roving bands of devil worshipers hiding in every town and abducting babies.
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And if you listen to heavy metal, especially backwards, well,
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that would turn you into a devil worshiper and so on.
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But it was, you know, years after that. And in my 20s, I picked up and read
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the Satanic Bible, and it just really completely resonated with me.
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And not everybody will have that experience with that book, and other people
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resonate to other religions. And, you know, we say that's fine.
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But that was where it really, you know, hit me. And then it was about a year
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after that, I decided to go join the Church of Satan.
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And then as I was doing more with Satanism, applied for active membership and sort of went from there.
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Yeah, it's fascinating to see that because it's like with any religion,
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right, or really any sort of movement, it's like when it resonates with you,
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it just resonates with you, right? And it hits you in a way.
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And I find it fascinating when we connect to things like that because it's like,
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well, why do we connect to things like that? And I don't mean that negatively.
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It's just such an interesting thought, right? It's like you're looking for something,
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and then one day it hits your lap, and you're like, wow, this is what I needed.
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And Satanism may be the call for you, others, maybe not for me,
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but I think it's great to talk about it because it's such a – I feel like everybody
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looks – here's that word, Satan, and they just fear for themselves.
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Which just shows it's – I guess we chose it for good reasons. It still works.
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It still works in the sense of fear, but how do you do good with a fearful title?
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How does that work? What do you think?
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Well, yeah, it's an interesting question. Doing good. I mean,
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it depends on what we mean by doing good.
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I mean, everybody thinks they're doing good. Even, you know,
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jihadists who run planes into buildings think they're doing all this work. You're right.
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So, yeah, there is some subjectivity to that.
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I mean, I do believe as a Satanist, even as, you know, I'm animal and within
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that comes there is a degree of personal responsibility because I realize my
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actions have consequences.
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And I also realize there is, you know, I believe there is no God looking out for me.
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It is up to me to take the responsibility. I'm ultimately responsible for what
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happens in my life. So I have to be courteous as a citizen as well.
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And, you know, for everybody. Because it's in my best rational self-interest, you know. Sure, sure.
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If I walk around, you know, being a bastard to people, somebody is eventually going to be bad to me.
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Right. It's only natural. But now, but I think with, I think the common conception
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is that you guys are like.
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Like, just, I don't want to say evil, but I think people would think that.
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Right. And it's like, well, to my understanding, you guys do a lot of help for
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like different organizations too, correct?
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Well, no, that's completely up to the individual Satanist.
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It's up to the individual Satanist. If he or she wants to do philanthropy or
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to get into some kind of political or social cause, that's fine within Satanism.
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It's ultimately up to the individual because we are are shamelessly selfish individuals.
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We say that in Satanism, we operate on rational self-interest.
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If I want to, if a Satanist wants to go donate, say to some charity or organization,
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it's ultimately because of self-interest.
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It's because, you know, this is, I feel happier when I'm giving,
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or I'd like to see the world in a certain state.
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And I think this other charity or this other group can and go help,
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you know, fulfill that cause.
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But we are not under any obligation to really do things for humanity.
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You know, it's the way I see it. It's also up to the individual to go decide that.
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So how does the Church of Satan, I take it you guys don't recruit people,
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but how do you go about getting more people part of the church to be part of the Satanism?
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We just put, you know, our literature and everything else out there and people
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eventually find it. Where would I find literature?
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Where would it be? You can go to churchofsatan.com.
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We have lots of free essays on there.
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The Satanic Bible, other books by Anton LaVey as well as Peter H.
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Gilmore have been available in bookstores.
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You can go into Barnes & Noble, find the Satanic Bible.
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So a lot of it has come through people stumbling across it. Some people initially.
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I know some Satanists who got into it first as a joke, like they wanted to go
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enrage Christians and they've got some, you know, satanic looking stuff.
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And then they stopped and like read it and say, Hey, wait a minute.
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Like, I actually agree with a lot of this stuff here. Let me actually look more
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into this beyond the shock value and see what's here.
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Yeah. So there's not like, you know, I forget what religion it is.
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Maybe it's Jehovah witness, the people that will stand in front of a storefront
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with little pamphlets and handing them out to people or knocking on doors.
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No, no, no, we don't, we don't, no, no, we don't proselytize and we don't recruit.
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I think first and foremost, because it's antithetical to statenism because this
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is a religion that's not for everybody and to try to get somebody into it when
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they're not really into it it's not helpful for them certainly not helpful for us.
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You know, if anything, we're telling more people, it's like, no, go away.
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You don't know what you're talking about when people approach us for the wrong
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reasons and without an understanding.
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I want to ask, can you kind of explain to us how a ritual works? Sure.
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Before I get into it, I just want to quickly say, and this is not a dig at you
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guys, but we get asked about rituals so often, and I just find it kind of amusing
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because we spend so little of our time really doing it.
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It's an important part of the end of the religion. I think it's an important
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part of religion in general and what separates religion from just philosophy
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that you have, ceremony and symbolism and so on. Sure.
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But a standard satanic ritual, there's one given in the satanic Bible and that's
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kind of like a blueprint you can take embellish with your own work.
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So you have a setting, I would say, where you suspend disbelief.
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And that is you go into a setting where it's a psychological setting,
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sort of how like if you were really enjoying a book or a movie,
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you kind of suspend disbelief. You know, it's fictional.
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But to get really into it, you have to kind of immerse yourself emotionally a bit in that world.
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And I think you can do the same thing within the context of a ritual chamber
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by having the trappings, having candles and lightings, something to set the ambience with music.
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Is it almost like creating a fantasy almost?
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Yeah, it is. In fact, if you look at the back of the Satanic Bible,
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like the book classification the publishers gave is fantasy.
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Interesting. Yeah. Which I thought at first, I'm like, oh, well,
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that's silly. That's ridiculous.
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But I thought about it more. I was like, no, actually, you know,
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that is kind of true. True. Not fiction, but fantasy that we know what we're
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doing here and the rituals is fantasy.
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It's an intentional fiction you make for yourself.
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And then when it's done, you kind of get all that off your chest and go back to the real world.
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The reason why i brought up the ritual is because
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um i play a lot of dungeons and dragons and i met a
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lot of people in that circle and i've had multiple people
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tell me oh yeah i partake in church of satan
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type rituals but no one could ever give me a description
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of what was happening so i was always just kind of confused by that because
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that's like well what what is it but i think the clarity is just it is like
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a fantasy type setting and to what you're saying it makes sense to me but i
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just i feel like it is kind of hard to explain even though it doesn't happen
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Do you disagree with that?
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No, it is inherently kind of hard to explain because it is something that we
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define as a very subjective and emotional thing.
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Um experience and to try to put that
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into practical words sometimes is you know it's tough and
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trying trying to yeah trying to explain it oh i'm sure it's almost like you
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know again like any other religion right like where they like you know i'm sure
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like with you know judaism right like the idea of some people take passover
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very very emotional and very serious like right so it's probably that same conviction
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right i think i don't know i i just think it's fascinating to
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know that as a human as a race we
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have the ability to believe in anything
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and i think it's amazing that we all have this this
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this type of freedom to do so and and it's even with the church of satan it
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is almost like the it's the rock and roll of of of a religion almost right like
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i don't know if you would agree with that but yeah it's like you know that very
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i i don't know i i just find it i find it fascinating to to know that it isn't
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just a a statement it is something much
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more, you know, it's such a much more in-depth than that.
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And I think the documentary that, and I apologize if I keep bringing it up,
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but I mean, that's literally what was a huge impact into how I discovered Satanism
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was through the documentary.
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And well, some people ironically find it through like Christian propaganda too.
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Well, you know, they will find anti-Satanism stuff and ironically find their
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way to Satanism through that.
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Which is actually, I wanted to bring that up next is, you know,
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through the different like religions,
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how does that, you know, help you guys this i don't say membership numbers
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but like help people get into satanism like is that
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like a big key to it as well like other religions talking
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negatively about you guys you know again people will find it
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on their own and they do find it on their own we're not trying to go for sure
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sure a certain number of members we're always going to be a minority satanists
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always will be which is something i i see a lot of other people don't really
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understand when they think well we have to make satanism you know we we have to.
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To be socially acceptable and fully integrated in society. It's like,
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no, no, it's Satanism. About how many members?
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I do not know the exact membership count of the Church of Satan.
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And we have always not revealed that a while ago.
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Our founder made the choice years ago. Anton LaVey had made the choice to not
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reveal the membership numbers.
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His reasoning was if it was something that seemed too large to people,
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people might consider us a threat and give us a home desk, give us a hard time.
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Or if the numbers seem too low, people might not take us seriously.
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So I don't know what the membership number is. Do people consider like,
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I don't want to say a threat because I feel like it's too, it's too brutal,
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but do you feel that a lot of people see you guys as just a pure malicious group
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rather than being people that practice like a safe, you know, type religion?
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Yeah, it's funny. I mean, the stereotypes and the perceptions go completely
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over the spectrum, Like on the one hand, you have the people who assume,
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oh, you know, you're just a bunch of teenagers who listen to heavy metal and
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listen and, you know, live in your parents' basement.
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And then on the other hand, there's the idea of us being like the Illuminati
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and that we control the world banks, you know, everything like that.
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You know, I'm just amused that those, those are like two of the exact opposites,
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but like, we still get those, both those stereotypes. It's.
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Bizarre. You know, people have their different perceptions. And I guess a lot
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of that is because a lot of people simply don't and probably,
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you know, might not ever run into an open Satanist.
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And if they run into what they think is Satanism, they only know about it through
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maybe a horror movie or through Christian propaganda.
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Or they knew that one metalhead in middle school who carved pentagrams on the
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desk and called himself a Satanist and stopped doing it once he went to high
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school and got a girlfriend.
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You know, so people have the different perceptions based on those sorts of things.
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But I mean, if we really cared about public approval, we wouldn't call ourselves Satanists.
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But I do think it's good to correct misinformation when I say it.
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Yeah, I was looking at the website and it says, you know, the church of Satan,
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it's, you're actually atheist.
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So you're not believing in like any higher being as a God.
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But when I hear church of Satan, I mean, you know, I would think,
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oh, those guys, they worship the devil.
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And that means then the devil, according to, you know, Christian beliefs in
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the Bible is this bad thing. And he's in the Bible as a bad guy.
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So theoretically, you guys would be bad. But I'm looking on your website and
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a lot of the things that I see that, you know, like your, your rules,
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11 satanic rules of the earth, they're actually like good, you know,
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that's carrying good things.
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Like you're not doing bad work at all.
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You know, it's quite the opposite, right? Yeah. Maybe to you.
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But of course, if you read those things, yeah, to traditional spiritual religions,
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not just Christianity, but others. Whereas what we're doing is completely evil
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to actually take self responsibility, to actually not be shameful about lust.
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To actually want more money for yourself or anything like that you know that's
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all considered evil so i mean the way i see it as a satanist as well if they're
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going to call it evil then,
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okay call me satanist then yeah i'm looking at number three number four number
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three is when you go into another's lair show him respect or else do not go
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there and then number four if a a guest in your lair annoys you treat him cruelly and without mercy.
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And the lair of course doesn't have to be your own house i mean your lair could
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be inside your car and sure here your your show right now this is your lair
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so yeah interesting it's such a it's it's so intriguing to me it really is i
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i have to ask you can you tell me a little more about your your show you host, by the way.
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So yeah, I've been doing The Devil's Mischief for about 18 years now. No, 17 years.
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So it's a comedy and novelty show that I do. I'm part of Radio Free Satan.
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So Radio Free Satan is a whole series of podcasts put together by Church of
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Satan members that we launched back in 2000.
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And I've been doing a comedy and novelty show there where I play recordings
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of stand-up comedy, movie excerpts, novelty songs, obscurities like that.
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And the way The way I think that ties in with Satanism is I do think humor is
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an inherently satanic thing because it is the precise opposite of piety and the sanctimonious.
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And to find humor, satire, ridicule, if you find the right one,
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it can shake down any dogma and expose.
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Lies through ridicule and all that so when when
400
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it comes to like selecting your your stand-up
401
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if you will do you just because you you play only vinyl correct
402
00:26:00,515 --> 00:26:03,595
no no i mean most recently i was playing a couple vinyl excerpts
403
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but no i have i have hundreds of comedy cds that i own you know that i've ripped
404
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in vinyl and then i i might have bootleg recordings or things like that so i
405
00:26:15,895 --> 00:26:19,955
get it from a lot of different sources what's the what's like the go-to comedian
406
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or is there a go-to comedian?
407
00:26:21,355 --> 00:26:26,075
Well, I'd have to say George Carlin is one that shows up more often than not,
408
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and not just because of his religion bashing stuff.
409
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I sincerely think he had like a lot of good satanic ideals.
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I think if you read the introduction to his book, Braindroppings,
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just has a lot of philosophically satanic points to it on his,
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you know, his misanthropy and his independence and so on.
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I also run the website, georgecarlin.net. Do you? Yeah, I created that mainly
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because I was getting really sick of seeing all of these misattributed quotes
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to Carlin on the Internet.
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So I wanted to straighten out, you know, the truth from the lies there.
417
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What is involved in your role with the Church of Satan? What do you do on a day to day basis?
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I mean, I assume you have like a job and then and then you do this as well. Or is this your job?
419
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No, I mean, I do have a daytime job that actually pays the bills.
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And then when it comes to my role in the Church of Satan, like I said,
421
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the titles are honorary, and nobody's obligated to do anything with the roles.
422
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But I like taking more of an active role. I run several discussion groups online
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and, you know, this is my podcast and of course shows like this where I,
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you know, I come in as a media representative because,
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you know, we get requests to,
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you know, to do an article or to do a podcast or radio interview, whatever.
427
00:27:47,955 --> 00:27:51,155
I show up for those as well. When you go, when you go and do your,
428
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like the, the, the church of Satan, I guess, tour, if you will,
429
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what is the, the question you wish you weren't asked all the time?
430
00:27:57,815 --> 00:28:01,395
Ooh, that's a good question. and I wasn't asked all the time.
431
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I don't mind talking about ritual, but I did have to mention something, as I mentioned earlier.
432
00:28:06,652 --> 00:28:09,272
Sure. I don't mind doing it, and I don't blame you at all for bringing it up.
433
00:28:09,332 --> 00:28:12,432
But again, I just find it amusing that it shows up a lot.
434
00:28:12,732 --> 00:28:19,212
Yeah, I mean, that's about it. I've been asked some strange questions off the list.
435
00:28:19,272 --> 00:28:21,872
Usually, these questions have nothing to do with us. Like when I get questions
436
00:28:21,872 --> 00:28:25,312
about Aleister Crowley and this and that, and it's like, okay,
437
00:28:25,332 --> 00:28:26,332
well, he was a Thelemite.
438
00:28:26,412 --> 00:28:31,332
It's a completely different religion with its own beliefs and rules and everything.
439
00:28:31,792 --> 00:28:34,672
Interesting. Have you ever had to kick anybody out of the church?
440
00:28:34,892 --> 00:28:37,492
Oh, yeah. That's happened a number of times before.
441
00:28:38,032 --> 00:28:42,412
Some people do leave. I mean, we're not a cult. And some people do leave voluntarily.
442
00:28:42,832 --> 00:28:46,832
Some people leave because they get different religious beliefs.
443
00:28:46,912 --> 00:28:50,412
Over time, they decide, okay, I've kind of had a change in beliefs and this,
444
00:28:50,492 --> 00:28:52,632
and I can't really honestly call myself a Satanist anymore.
445
00:28:52,932 --> 00:28:54,952
So, you know, they usually part peacefully.
446
00:28:55,252 --> 00:28:57,032
Other people we've, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
447
00:28:57,792 --> 00:29:02,632
Other people we've kicked out when they were just being, just being complete
448
00:29:02,632 --> 00:29:06,812
pests and just being just complete assholes to people. I don't know if assuming
449
00:29:06,812 --> 00:29:07,852
I can swear on this podcast.
450
00:29:07,972 --> 00:29:11,972
Yes, you can say as much as you want. Other people have once in a while,
451
00:29:12,152 --> 00:29:14,732
you know, somebody will seemingly go off the deep end.
452
00:29:14,792 --> 00:29:20,312
We've kicked people out for associating with other groups that explicitly condemn
453
00:29:20,312 --> 00:29:21,992
us and spread lies about us.
454
00:29:22,272 --> 00:29:24,772
So what groups can we ask?
455
00:29:25,592 --> 00:29:29,372
Yeah, like one of the ones you mentioned earlier. It came up early in this. Okay.
456
00:29:30,312 --> 00:29:35,272
You're free in the church, Satan. You can join any other organization you want,
457
00:29:35,352 --> 00:29:41,992
so long as it's not somebody who is explicitly trying to bash us or replace us,
458
00:29:42,192 --> 00:29:46,252
rival us, or is doing criminal activity.
459
00:29:46,532 --> 00:29:50,512
Of course, we don't have tolerance for that. I think any organization,
460
00:29:50,812 --> 00:29:53,792
sensible organization, has something like that in place.
461
00:29:54,772 --> 00:30:00,512
When a big political movement happens, does the Church of Satan get involved?
462
00:30:00,772 --> 00:30:04,252
For example, I'll throw up Black Lives Matter during the George Floyd stuff.
463
00:30:04,592 --> 00:30:10,372
Does Church of Satan show their support for that, or is that completely 100%
464
00:30:10,372 --> 00:30:14,532
on the individual and they can't say, oh, we're part of the Church of Satan,
465
00:30:14,592 --> 00:30:18,212
we're supporting Black Lives Matter? So the short answer is no.
466
00:30:18,392 --> 00:30:22,452
To get into more detail, it is completely up to the individual Church of Satan
467
00:30:22,452 --> 00:30:26,092
member whether they want to go support some cause or, you know,
468
00:30:26,112 --> 00:30:27,532
other organization like that.
469
00:30:27,572 --> 00:30:30,892
If a Church of Satan member wants to support Black Lives Matter,
470
00:30:31,152 --> 00:30:32,852
they're freely welcome to.
471
00:30:33,512 --> 00:30:38,772
And you have members that condemn Black Lives Matter, not out of any kind of
472
00:30:38,772 --> 00:30:43,172
racial basis, but, you know, there are some questions about where their money
473
00:30:43,172 --> 00:30:46,332
is funded, you know, where their money goes to.
474
00:30:46,432 --> 00:30:49,632
There's been some evidence it goes to a place called Thousand Currents and Act
475
00:30:49,632 --> 00:30:55,352
Blue and doesn't actually, like only 4% goes to actually help black communities.
476
00:30:55,352 --> 00:30:59,312
So it still comes down to the individual Satanist of what they feel is in his
477
00:30:59,312 --> 00:31:00,972
or her best interest and what they want to support.
478
00:31:01,152 --> 00:31:07,792
But I would say those expecting the Church of Satan to, we'll continue using Black Lives Matter.
479
00:31:07,952 --> 00:31:11,312
Here's this example, support Black Lives Matter. Somebody even tagged us like
480
00:31:11,312 --> 00:31:16,432
on Twitter and said, you know, a church of Satan, you should support Black Lives
481
00:31:16,432 --> 00:31:17,992
Matter or state here that you support.
482
00:31:18,192 --> 00:31:22,632
And it's like, OK, first of all, no, it should be up to the individual because
483
00:31:22,632 --> 00:31:24,912
Satanism is we put the individual above the collective.
484
00:31:25,152 --> 00:31:28,012
It's about the individual, whether they want to support that or not.
485
00:31:28,012 --> 00:31:33,552
Second of all, do you really think it would help Black Lives Matter if they
486
00:31:33,552 --> 00:31:37,752
said, Black Lives Matter receives support from the Church of Satan?
487
00:31:38,332 --> 00:31:40,332
No. Well, when you say it like that.
488
00:31:42,872 --> 00:31:46,652
But what if it could, where it's like, I'm saying, you know,
489
00:31:46,692 --> 00:31:49,972
maybe I'm speaking facetiously, but like, what if it could?
490
00:31:49,972 --> 00:31:58,092
Like, what if we said 100,000 members of the Church of Satan all rallied together to show their support?
491
00:31:58,352 --> 00:32:04,432
I mean, that might be a good publicity change, right? Well, publicity change for who? For us?
492
00:32:04,632 --> 00:32:09,692
I mean, we're not looking for public acceptance, like I said. We're Satanists.
493
00:32:09,952 --> 00:32:15,592
Right. And if there were a hundred thousand of us members who wanted to go support
494
00:32:15,592 --> 00:32:19,432
that, you could do that individually and you can do that without doing it in
495
00:32:19,432 --> 00:32:22,012
the name of the church of Satan. Like, why would you do that?
496
00:32:22,575 --> 00:32:26,655
Gotcha. And again, not to mention it would backfire again.
497
00:32:28,415 --> 00:32:33,215
Gotcha. I mean, one of the stupidest supports I saw was when people were claiming
498
00:32:33,215 --> 00:32:38,875
to be Satanists and showing up at abortion rallies saying, you know,
499
00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:42,675
pro-choice, like, you know, we're Satanists here to support pro-choice.
500
00:32:42,675 --> 00:32:47,355
It's like, what is the biggest stereotype of Satanism that we sacrifice babies?
501
00:32:48,075 --> 00:32:51,915
And it's like, how are you helping the pro-choice movement at all by showing
502
00:32:51,915 --> 00:32:54,155
up and saying, yes, Satanists are with you guys?
503
00:32:54,435 --> 00:32:58,475
I mean, the people on the other side are largely fundamentalist Christians.
504
00:32:59,055 --> 00:33:02,095
And if they see that, they're like, oh, well, there you go. See,
505
00:33:02,335 --> 00:33:06,955
the people opposite from us are associated with Satanists.
506
00:33:07,155 --> 00:33:10,835
So again, it doesn't help Satanism and it doesn't help whatever cause it is
507
00:33:10,835 --> 00:33:11,595
you're jumping into. to.
508
00:33:11,995 --> 00:33:15,015
How does the Church of Satan fund itself?
509
00:33:15,315 --> 00:33:20,555
Does it cost to be a part, a membership fee, or do you guys just take strictly donations?
510
00:33:21,655 --> 00:33:28,295
We take a one-time, lifetime membership fee for people who want to join,
511
00:33:28,395 --> 00:33:30,415
and then that's all we do.
512
00:33:30,655 --> 00:33:35,895
Individuals who want to go set up their own events affiliated with the Church
513
00:33:35,895 --> 00:33:39,355
of Satan might charge money to cover their own,
514
00:33:40,055 --> 00:33:43,735
individual costs that they're putting on but otherwise that's it so like for
515
00:33:43,735 --> 00:33:49,435
for let's say you wanted to host i don't know something do you have to is like
516
00:33:49,435 --> 00:33:53,735
does that like an is there like an approval to do it like let's say you want
517
00:33:53,735 --> 00:33:57,895
to do the ritual right i just use as as the example do you have to get that
518
00:33:57,895 --> 00:34:00,035
approved by like a high priest or you just make that call
519
00:34:00,455 --> 00:34:06,635
no you can just make that call i mean we used to have grottos you know the covens
520
00:34:06,635 --> 00:34:12,375
if you will the grotto system where we had little individual geographically based groups.
521
00:34:12,635 --> 00:34:14,475
And we stopped doing that.
522
00:34:15,022 --> 00:34:19,782
About 15 to 20 years ago, because with the internet, you don't really need to do that anymore.
523
00:34:19,962 --> 00:34:23,682
I mean, if Church of Satan members want to go hook up with each other,
524
00:34:23,722 --> 00:34:26,022
first of all, if they want to hook up and collaborate on a project,
525
00:34:26,122 --> 00:34:28,862
they're not really limited to who lives around them.
526
00:34:29,422 --> 00:34:33,402
Radio Free Satan, going back to that example, that was founded by a group of
527
00:34:33,402 --> 00:34:35,802
Satanist COS members in Chicago.
528
00:34:36,302 --> 00:34:40,742
But, you know, we have DJs from all around the world who, you know,
529
00:34:40,742 --> 00:34:44,462
are making their podcasts and sending them in. You don't need to all be in the same city to do that.
530
00:34:44,562 --> 00:34:48,042
So you don't need the Church of Satan's approval to get together with other
531
00:34:48,042 --> 00:34:50,142
Satanists and go do things.
532
00:34:50,302 --> 00:34:55,902
If you want the Church of Satan to go help network through and promote things,
533
00:34:56,222 --> 00:34:57,562
yeah, that's a different story.
534
00:34:57,742 --> 00:35:03,582
So when it came to our 50th anniversary, for example, in 2016,
535
00:35:04,042 --> 00:35:07,462
there were some Satanists who wanted to do something special and
536
00:35:07,462 --> 00:35:10,242
wanted to organize organize you know events for that so
537
00:35:10,242 --> 00:35:14,142
they had planned those together and with
538
00:35:14,142 --> 00:35:16,882
the support of the church of satan as you know
539
00:35:16,882 --> 00:35:20,962
an organization they can get that news out to all of the the members who check
540
00:35:20,962 --> 00:35:24,162
in and so on and that answers your question yeah that does yeah i think it's
541
00:35:24,162 --> 00:35:28,542
um i think what's interesting though about like the entire the entire like i
542
00:35:28,542 --> 00:35:32,682
guess i don't want to say setup but the entire like organization i guess is
543
00:35:32,682 --> 00:35:34,582
i do like the fact that you guys all kind of.
544
00:35:35,222 --> 00:35:41,382
Accept the individual for their individual choices and i think that's a big key to i think.
545
00:35:42,002 --> 00:35:45,242
Humanity in general is understanding that we have individual choices right
546
00:35:45,242 --> 00:35:48,002
and we can make those choices whether they're good or bad or not
547
00:35:48,002 --> 00:35:50,682
and i think you know if you make a good choice you know you
548
00:35:50,682 --> 00:35:53,442
make a good choice you make a bad one then you have to deal with the consequence of what comes
549
00:35:53,442 --> 00:35:56,342
with that right and i think i think all that is
550
00:35:56,342 --> 00:35:59,342
it's it's it's it's a it's an open idea
551
00:35:59,342 --> 00:36:02,202
and i think it's a good idea and i think it's unfortunate that everybody
552
00:36:02,202 --> 00:36:05,062
sees you guys as a as a negative in a negative
553
00:36:05,062 --> 00:36:08,062
context right where it's like again just always is
554
00:36:08,062 --> 00:36:10,802
to me i've never heard anybody something positive about the
555
00:36:10,802 --> 00:36:14,002
church of satan right and it's like is there i don't
556
00:36:14,002 --> 00:36:17,262
really know of any evidence where you guys are actually bad or evil you
557
00:36:17,262 --> 00:36:20,602
know what i mean like there might be people who claim to be satanist that do
558
00:36:20,602 --> 00:36:24,862
unfortunate things but they're not necessarily church of satan people you know
559
00:36:24,862 --> 00:36:28,962
what i mean correct yeah we don't allow people to do that there you do occasionally
560
00:36:28,962 --> 00:36:33,142
find some crazy person in the news who's hearing voices in his head and either
561
00:36:33,142 --> 00:36:36,402
claims to be a Satanist because he,
562
00:36:36,422 --> 00:36:38,922
you know, believes Satan is a real thing and worshiping it,
563
00:36:38,962 --> 00:36:42,442
or maybe the media just finds,
564
00:36:42,622 --> 00:36:45,542
you know, that there's a murder and there are black candles on the scene.
565
00:36:45,642 --> 00:36:47,862
So they'll write in the headline, oh, Satanist killer.
566
00:36:48,142 --> 00:36:51,262
Right. And that's, that's gotta be like a continuous issue, right?
567
00:36:51,302 --> 00:36:53,802
Not continuous issue, but like when it happens, it's like, oh,
568
00:36:53,802 --> 00:36:55,842
again, right? Like, how do you. Oh yeah.
569
00:36:55,942 --> 00:36:59,782
Yeah. We were always sending corrections in to, you know, the media and we're
570
00:36:59,782 --> 00:37:04,702
watching things closely, when things like that happen, we've gotten people even
571
00:37:04,702 --> 00:37:08,262
in, even in these recent years where you would think like journalists could
572
00:37:08,262 --> 00:37:10,422
just take 10 seconds to search.
573
00:37:10,971 --> 00:37:13,411
Like, look us up or look on Wikipedia or something like that.
574
00:37:13,551 --> 00:37:15,711
They don't care. It's, like, all about the clickbait headlines.
575
00:37:15,911 --> 00:37:18,771
But we've gotten some major publications to go retract, you know,
576
00:37:18,811 --> 00:37:20,931
some lines when they've said explicit lies.
577
00:37:21,071 --> 00:37:24,191
Oh, that's good. That's good. So you guys have people that are,
578
00:37:24,271 --> 00:37:30,671
like, kind of PR people that are working to help situations like that to keep you guys.
579
00:37:30,891 --> 00:37:34,131
Yeah. And that's something I do as well as a media representative.
580
00:37:34,291 --> 00:37:36,431
You know, I kind of check in with the other members and say,
581
00:37:36,451 --> 00:37:38,711
hey, you know, this article came up that mentions us.
582
00:37:38,911 --> 00:37:41,891
And sometimes it's good though. Sometimes it's like, oh, you know,
583
00:37:41,911 --> 00:37:45,711
this article mentioned us and well, they did a good job and they didn't really,
584
00:37:45,811 --> 00:37:48,171
you know, they didn't have to make up anything or lie.
585
00:37:48,731 --> 00:37:51,931
Other times, like I've, I've done interviews with, you know,
586
00:37:51,931 --> 00:37:54,551
papers or TV show, TV news programs and stuff.
587
00:37:54,671 --> 00:37:58,691
And then they don't end up using anything, you know, of mine or any,
588
00:37:58,691 --> 00:38:03,131
anything we've recorded, you know, cause it doesn't fit, fit the narrative.
589
00:38:03,291 --> 00:38:05,131
I think some news stations are disappointed.
590
00:38:05,331 --> 00:38:08,051
It's like, oh, we wanted to interview you cause we thought, you
591
00:38:08,051 --> 00:38:10,791
know you sacrificed babies and did all these other things oh you don't
592
00:38:10,791 --> 00:38:13,991
do that well that's like kind of disappointing it doesn't fit
593
00:38:13,991 --> 00:38:18,091
into our story about the story yeah yeah uh there's
594
00:38:18,091 --> 00:38:21,631
these there's these pictures that i see on on the website that kind of like
595
00:38:21,631 --> 00:38:25,771
a scrolling pictures and it's like photos of people kind of dressed up or with
596
00:38:25,771 --> 00:38:32,631
these animal head masks on and like naked women and so is there like these crazy
597
00:38:32,631 --> 00:38:36,071
parties that that happen that you guys get together and and just kind of let
598
00:38:36,071 --> 00:38:37,451
it all hang out, so to speak.
599
00:38:37,861 --> 00:38:41,721
Oh, yeah, those happen every once in a while. Not as much these days,
600
00:38:41,741 --> 00:38:45,021
unfortunately, with COVID and the lockdowns. Yeah, the Zoom.
601
00:38:45,081 --> 00:38:45,861
We're trying to be careful.
602
00:38:46,161 --> 00:38:50,901
Zoom party where you... Yeah, I've known some people who've done Zoom rituals.
603
00:38:51,001 --> 00:38:56,721
We had about a year ago a little Zoom dedication ritual for a member who passed away.
604
00:38:57,321 --> 00:39:00,961
But yeah, well, you see there are some examples there from our rituals.
605
00:39:00,961 --> 00:39:03,841
Rituals but those are rituals that is that separate from
606
00:39:03,841 --> 00:39:06,661
like hey we're all in the church of satan let's just get together and
607
00:39:06,661 --> 00:39:09,501
throw a wild party or something is that it's different
608
00:39:09,501 --> 00:39:12,261
i mean if church if and when church and satan members
609
00:39:12,261 --> 00:39:15,081
want to hook up with each other i mean it may be virtual maybe for
610
00:39:15,081 --> 00:39:17,921
other social events you know yeah what do
611
00:39:17,921 --> 00:39:20,601
you think we were gonna have to wrap it up here but what do you think
612
00:39:20,601 --> 00:39:25,221
is the biggest like misconception of satanism
613
00:39:25,221 --> 00:39:29,201
that you wish to just go away well these days the
614
00:39:29,201 --> 00:39:32,081
idea that satanism can be anything you want
615
00:39:32,081 --> 00:39:35,041
i'd like to see that go away because i just see
616
00:39:35,041 --> 00:39:38,661
so many clueless people especially online who take this
617
00:39:38,661 --> 00:39:43,841
mishmash of occult stuff or take you know some bits and pieces of things they
618
00:39:43,841 --> 00:39:48,221
put online and put it together and say like yeah this is satanism i'm a satanist
619
00:39:48,221 --> 00:39:55,501
and it's like no satanism was a A religion codified in 1966 by Antoine LeVay,
620
00:39:55,541 --> 00:39:56,821
who then wrote the Satanic Bible.
621
00:39:57,221 --> 00:40:03,221
There was no, I've seen no evidence of a religion calling itself Satanism before then.
622
00:40:03,861 --> 00:40:07,681
Gotcha. There have certainly been devil worshipers that existed throughout the centuries.
623
00:40:08,581 --> 00:40:13,721
And there are a lot of those even were cases of aristocrats who were bored and
624
00:40:13,721 --> 00:40:15,181
wanted to have an excuse to have an orgy.
625
00:40:15,241 --> 00:40:17,721
So they would do like a black mass or something like that.
626
00:40:17,821 --> 00:40:22,861
Sure. but an actual religion calling itself satanism with you know complete with an ethics code and,
627
00:40:23,601 --> 00:40:27,341
you know symbolism and all this other stuff that to make it an actual religion
628
00:40:27,341 --> 00:40:31,141
i've seen no evidence of that prior to the church of satan and i know people
629
00:40:31,141 --> 00:40:33,361
on the outside when i make these,
630
00:40:34,198 --> 00:40:37,158
points, people who aren't Satanists might say, oh, well,
631
00:40:37,398 --> 00:40:41,378
you know, this person from the church of Satan says this person from,
632
00:40:41,438 --> 00:40:44,578
I don't know, like the mosque of Lucifer is,
633
00:40:44,778 --> 00:40:49,018
he says he's not a real Satanist, but this is just, you know,
634
00:40:49,018 --> 00:40:52,478
quabbling between different religion, different religious denominations.
635
00:40:52,498 --> 00:40:56,078
And I know from the outside, it looks like that, but it's really not because
636
00:40:56,078 --> 00:40:58,958
I mean, different religion denominations, their denominations,
637
00:40:58,978 --> 00:41:02,798
because they share some kind of theology in common, the different Christian religions,
638
00:41:02,918 --> 00:41:05,678
for example, at the end of the day, hey, they still believe in the same God,
639
00:41:05,778 --> 00:41:08,758
the same deity structure, the same Bible. They have different interpretations.
640
00:41:09,078 --> 00:41:13,538
But when we're talking about the Church of Satan and some serial killer in the
641
00:41:13,538 --> 00:41:16,878
news who happens to have like black candles, it's like, no, you can't.
642
00:41:17,138 --> 00:41:19,578
I don't think it's right to call that Satanism.
643
00:41:20,058 --> 00:41:23,978
Right. There's nothing, it has nothing theologically in common with us.
644
00:41:24,038 --> 00:41:27,718
Or these other people who set up groups and call themselves Satanists,
645
00:41:27,778 --> 00:41:32,438
but then have nothing in common with us aside from maybe some of the same jewelry.
646
00:41:32,438 --> 00:41:35,238
Worry bill it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you
647
00:41:35,238 --> 00:41:38,058
it is thank you for providing so much insight to me
648
00:41:38,058 --> 00:41:40,858
and mike about everything i think our audience is really gonna
649
00:41:40,858 --> 00:41:43,738
enjoy this one because i think one of our big things
650
00:41:43,738 --> 00:41:46,798
with our show is that we like to let people just talk about whatever it
651
00:41:46,798 --> 00:41:50,418
is you know whether it's politics whether it's video games whether it's comic
652
00:41:50,418 --> 00:41:55,058
books i mean we've had a very very wide array of guests and i i'm very thankful
653
00:41:55,058 --> 00:41:59,098
for you taking the time and being here and providing us that insight because
654
00:41:59,098 --> 00:42:02,358
yeah you definitely have opened up my mind a little more to understanding more
655
00:42:02,358 --> 00:42:05,178
about this the religion and understanding,
656
00:42:05,738 --> 00:42:08,718
its kind of purpose and stuff so thank you for that yeah sure you guys
657
00:42:08,718 --> 00:42:12,518
run a great show and you know we're all humans looking for some kind of way
658
00:42:12,518 --> 00:42:16,058
to organize what we're seeing in the world and have a you know lens to view
659
00:42:16,058 --> 00:42:18,978
through that and for me that's satanism for somebody else it may be something
660
00:42:18,978 --> 00:42:26,138
else absolutely well we like to have you know a lot of different types of points of view on
661
00:42:26,218 --> 00:42:29,178
things, but I think one thing we can all share,
662
00:42:29,278 --> 00:42:31,618
I'm looking at your nine satanic sins and.
663
00:42:32,518 --> 00:42:36,118
The number one is probably my favorite one and it's stupidity.
664
00:42:36,158 --> 00:42:42,298
And I feel like that should be something that everyone can take from the church of Satan is come on.
665
00:42:42,318 --> 00:42:46,758
Let's that that's the top of the list for, for a lot of people, right?
666
00:42:46,838 --> 00:42:49,398
Let's just not be so stupid all the time. Yeah.
667
00:42:51,418 --> 00:42:54,698
Bill, just one more time. Where can they find your podcast?
668
00:42:54,698 --> 00:42:57,958
Guest so i'm on radio free satan.com and
669
00:42:57,958 --> 00:43:01,038
my show is the devil's mischief you can find lots of other shows
670
00:43:01,038 --> 00:43:03,798
that we have on there as well awesome and then do you have any social
671
00:43:03,798 --> 00:43:06,698
medias at all do you want to plug uh yeah you
672
00:43:06,698 --> 00:43:12,018
can find everything linked from i'm just a bill.com i'm just i love it schoolhouse
673
00:43:12,018 --> 00:43:16,298
rock i've had that uh domain name since the late 90s oh that's awesome awesome
674
00:43:16,298 --> 00:43:22,238
my younger audience is probably like what does that mean schoolhouse uh bill
675
00:43:22,238 --> 00:43:25,058
thank you again so much I really do appreciate your time.
676
00:43:25,218 --> 00:43:28,558
Mike, do you have any last words? Let's not be stupid.
677
00:43:29,918 --> 00:43:33,358
Let's not be stupid indeed. Thank you again, Bill. Take care, okay?
678
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:44,976
Music.
